PATROLLING

Gadgets and Methods

PATROLLING

Postby kmussack » 22 Jul 2017 08:13

As a regular viewer of PJF's videos I saw that there was a shift in focus toward the tactical, specifically patrolling. So I dug out my copy of FM 7-8 Infantry Platoon And Squad I also pulled down my desk top copy of SH 21-76 Ranger Handbook (dtd. February 2011). I also dug out my old field copy but returned it to its place of honor in my vault.
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Patrolling is an activity I have some experience with and am looking forward to hearing more about how to organize and train a group of folks (civilians) to conduct such a task.
“The modern world demands that we approve what it should not even dare ask us to tolerate.” Nicolas Gomez Davila
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Re: PATROLLING

Postby Joe » 23 Jul 2017 13:10

I treat it in an "SF manner" and just treat it like I am training Gs/guerrillas.
Get motivated people and start with the basics.
This is where you stand in the formation(s)
This is where you look
This is how we walk
This is what we do when we stop
Actions on contact
Individual and leadership responsibilities.

Supplementary training:
Orienteering
Rifle marksmanship - standing kneeling prone
Camouflage
Commo
Fitness

and on and on and on

Heck, we trained our Boy Scouts troop to be pretty good in the woods. They LOOKED like little Gs - boonie hats, drive on rag neckerchiefs, LBE with canteens and ammo pouches. Taught them how to make the "expedient ghillie suit" per "6 Ways in, 12 Ways out". Pilgrim52 was there - and helped :)
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Re: PATROLLING

Postby kmussack » 23 Jul 2017 13:59

Joe, do you have a METL (Mission Essential Task List) for civilians/ "Gs"?

How long do you estimate it will take to bring green civilians up to your standard?

My guess is that you'd focus on reconnaissance/security patrols and leave out the ambushes and raids. Yes?

I have no doubt given enough time and quality recruits you could stand up a reasonably good patrol.

What about folks that don't happen to have a retired SF/18-something on their team?

One would hope that the OPFOR would be no more skilled than your patrol. (Knowing that hope is not a course of action.)

It's all pretty interesting.....
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Re: PATROLLING

Postby Kolt » 23 Jul 2017 14:50

Not Joe, but I'll throw out a reference for you...and anyone else that is interested.

First to qualify it. "John Mosby" is a former Batt guy who went SF as an 18B. He has a somewhat now inactive blog. Three years ago is was very active and there is pure gold there when it comes to teaching civilians SUT. It is called Mountain Guerrilla.

Secondly, he has written three books. They can be purchased from Forward Observer. Joe gave us the link (which I forgot, my bad) in the Black Hat post, but I'll add it here:
https://readfomag.com/

And the books are here so you don't have to look:
https://readfomag.com/shop/

Volume one is for teach the Gs. Not only does he list a well thought out METL, but also all of the TCSs that go along with it. Some of this can also be found on his blog in older posts, but you need to dig a bit for it.

Here is the book description:
The Reluctant Partisan, Vol 1: The Guerrilla

$70.00

John Mosby has written the prepared citizen’s answer to The Ranger Handbook. In the words of one reader, “the… verbiage, and just general vibe is heads and tails above most the contemporaries in the same vein, and you will find it generally just way more legitimate than the usual gun show/survivalist/militia fare. It is not a fantasy book… dreaming about shooting the commie reptilians. It’s a sober how-to. Very good stuff.”

From discussions of the details of every subject covered, John moves into detailed, step-by-step training programs to including the program of instruction that he uses to teach his classes. As another reader points out, “It’s an insanely dense work. I’ve only scratched the surface so far, but damn. That this is just volume one…”

384 pages. 8.5″x11″.

* Contains graphic language*

John Mosby has written the prepared citizen’s answer to The Ranger Handbook. In the words of one reader, “the… verbiage, and just general vibe is heads and tails above most the contemporaries in the same vein, and you will find it generally just way more legitimate than the usual gun show/survivalist/militia fare. It is not a fantasy book… dreaming about shooting the commie reptilians. It’s a sober how-to. Very good stuff.”
“This is not rehashed military field manuals, Internet forum keyword commando buzzword bullshit. Some of you will balk at the price–$60. I promise you, it’s worth it. The less solid a base you have in this stuff, the more worthwhile it is.”
From discussions of the details of every subject covered, John moves into detailed, step-by-step training programs, to including the POI he uses to teach his classes. As another reader points out, “It’s an insanely dense work. I’ve only scratched the surface so far, but damn. That this is just volume one…”

Moving from physical conditioning programs and combatives training, into combat riflecraft, patrolling fundamentals, and step-by step instructions in all of the critical immediate action battle drills and individual tactical skills, this is the manual you’ve been waiting for. “You remember all that money you spent—some of you probably still spend—buying horseshit books from Paladin Press and at gun shows and Army/Navy stores? The information in which is often either outdated, dangerous, or just plain horseshit? If you have this book, The Ranger Handbook, and a good copy of the Boy Scout Manual, you will be ahead of the game in developing a base.”

S.A. Bailey, a combat veteran in Iraq, where he served in a Long-Range Surveillance Unit, self-professed “itinerant gun nut,” and the author of action adventure novels like The Lines We Cross, said this about The Reluctant Partisan, “As a young LRS soldier, I would have done…vile, shameful things for a copy of it. Every time I crack it open to a random page, I either learn something completely new to me, or am reminded of something I feel like a dickhead for forgetting…Really good stuff…I honestly believe that book is an instant classic in the genre, and I’m really looking forward to seeing where he goes with the series…I bet in a year’s time, these books will be required reading in certain training schools. This shit is solid!”

N.M., a 101st Airborne Division infantry veteran who fought in the Korengal Valley of Afghanistan, said, “Worth it. There’s a collective lifetime of information in here, even down to the throwaway sentences.”

Another commentator said, “Got to look through [a friend’s] copy earlier today, and it went from being “on the list” to being the list. I’ll put off several book purchases, to set aside the scratch for this.”

Is it worth the $70? IMO, yes (and I was a prior 11B for 12 years). I have all three of his books.

Volume 2, which I also recommend (since it is what I kind of do) is for teaching the underground.

While you're there, pick up Sam's book and Intel for Civilians.

There are many POIs for JCETs teaching FID from the last decade (many on green), but until Syria, we haven't been teaching Gs. To my knowledge and everything I've seen in regard to that was on red.

Take care,
K
Last edited by Kolt on 23 Jul 2017 15:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: PATROLLING

Postby Kolt » 23 Jul 2017 14:56

kmussack wrote:[size=150][color=#408000]J

My guess is that you'd focus on reconnaissance/security patrols and leave out the ambushes and raids. Yes?

]



With regard to this, my group started looking at it seriously a few months back.

I started a post about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9263

But it didn't get any interest, so I dropped it here on the forum.

Take care,
K
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"The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty." Proverbs 27:12
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Re: PATROLLING

Postby kmussack » 23 Jul 2017 17:51

Doing dangerous things with other soldiers when you have indirect fire support, a QRF and CASEVAC is one thing.
Doing those things with marginally trained family members, friends and neighbors without any backup really leaves me with a chill.
Honestly, I don't like to even think about it.

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Re: PATROLLING

Postby Kolt » 23 Jul 2017 18:36

kmussack wrote:Doing dangerous things with other soldiers when you have indirect fire support, a QRF and CASEVAC is one thing.
Doing those things with marginally trained family members, friends and neighbors without any backup really leaves me with a chill.
Honestly, I don't like to even think about it.



That is why we are planning ahead and definitely not limiting ourselves to marginally trained family members, friends and neighbors.

Most of my neighbors are active duty. Just about all of my friends are either active duty, prior service, retired, or LEOs with a few exceptions for those in the health care profession (which mainly come via my wife). With the exception of my in-laws, whom are on board, I don't have any family members close enough to count. Not on this side of the Mississippi River anyway

We are an interesting tribe though.

We realize the need, regardless of like, to think about it.

Take care,
k
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"The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and pay the penalty." Proverbs 27:12
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Re: PATROLLING

Postby kmussack » 25 Jul 2017 02:25

I'm not special. Many men have similar experiences.
A very long time ago I used to do this stuff for a living.
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Ft. Benning School for Boys, circa 1976
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