Elderberry tincture and swine flu info

[Eir]

This post may contain science..
I've been reading up on Elderberry tincture and Sambucol in the medical journals and have found the following:

1) There is a randomized controlled clinical trial on the effects against type A influenza showing efficacy from 2004. The study was performed according to "the principles" and thus is good science. However the endpoints of the study, i.e. what you measure were purely subjectice with people rating symptoms on a visual analog scale. The study was performed across four treatment centres and the enrollment criteria where decent ( temperature over 38 celcius and 1 or more respiratory symptoms).
This means that what we learn from this study is that people feel better when they take sambucol after experiencing flu symptoms if they have one of the types of flu present in the areas at that time. This is important because the new Type A H1N1 is acting a little differently (more on this later). If you want to read this study it's available free if you google around or ask me, it's a pdf and takes up 70 kb.

2) A review of Sambucol effects and studies conclude that the evidence is moderate for the efficacy of Sambucol. This is because there's only the one randomized study. The rest are animal tests and/or "in vitro" expermentation, which have been promising (i.e. Sambucol has been shown to inhibit the growth and in some cases terminate viruscolonies under lab-conditions.) This study is not available free unless you have database access; it is published ahead of print in a journal called phytotherapy research via wiley interscience.

3) Theres a new randomized clinical trial that's scheduled for completion in September. It's based in Israel and, my guess is it will be delayed so that they have a chance to single out those that have the new Type A H1N1.

In conclusion: There's some evidence that Sambucol is effective even when measured against the same criteria as traditional pharmacological remedies. However there's no publication that has tested it against the new flu and with good reason. The problem here, as many of you have identified, is the cytokine storm. This can best be likened to when people enter into septic shock. In septic shock it's also the body's immune response to infection that causes many of the problems. For instance there's a molecular link between the immune system and the coagulation system via a protein called Protein C, where activation may lead to widespread thrombosis and subsequent bleeding. The response in the new flu seems centred around the respiratory system, where the effects of the cytokines increase vascular and cellular permeabilty and a lot of fluid goes where it shouldn't be.

About the molecular effects of elderberry: This is guesswork but if you make a few assumptions( i know, i know) you get the following: I't increases the immunesystem's early response, i.e. before infection is widespread enough to cause the cytokine storm. This is by enhacing local concentrations of cytokines. Other than that antioxidant effects might inhibit viral replication in the cells. Attention..this last paragraph is entirely guesswork on my part.

Am I taking this instead of Tamiflu..If need be, then yes. Am I getting the vaccine... I'll wait and see how the virus changes as the flu season approaches. I'll rather take further preventative precautions until there's more clinical data. You'll all have to make these calls for yourselves.

regards
/eir

[Joe]

Tak, Eir

[Fusilier]

A thank you to AK-47. Good article with good pictures. I ordered elderberries today.
I've got some growing locally, but doubt if I can smuggle enough out of public areas to be worthwhile.
Also a thanks to Doctor Eir. Good to have your viewpoint, Sir.
And finally... thanks to Joe for hosting this site.

[BEOWULF]

New to this. how many pounds do you need to order. House has 3 adults and 1 teenager 13. Also, is it ELDER BERRY WHOLE, not the flowers correct?

[bbkaren]

Yes, it's the berry.

Maybe AK47 or someone else can let us know how much tincture they're able to get from each pound; I'm interested in knowing as well. Then we can calculate at a teaspoon a day per person (for those who want to take it preventively) to see how much we need.

I think I've seen how much syrup is produced per pound somewhere on the net, but not the tincture.

eta: I just found some articles that say to divide a pound up equally amongst three quart jars. So we can do the math from there--

[DocNDart]

When making the Elderberry tincture, can fresh elderberries be used and if so, is there any difference in the method? I am aware of the different colors of elderberries and the only ones safe to use are the black/darkblue ones. We have so many wild ones around this part of the country and I just noticed they are now in bloom. Any help would be appreciated. It will soon be time to start beating the bushes and collect some.

[BEOWULF]

Okay, I have another question from the experienced people. How many pounds or inventory should we keep. I just ordered 3 pounds from the link you gave. What should we keep on hand. ?

On the daily dosage, does it matter when we take ? and will 1 teaspoon be okay to start with for daily dosage ? and also have the D vits/supplements for preventive.

[Modestia]

Are Elderberries availible for purchase commercialy? I don't believe I have ever seen them for sale and don't think they grow in my neck of the woods...

[annabanana]

modestia...some were ordering from herbalcom.com/ a.b.

[Joe]

I got mine from herbal.com.
Received a batch yesterday.

Based on a Tamiflu resistant strain hitting the US (thanks Eir) viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1877 I agree that these look a lot more interesting.

Now I'll be visiting the liquor store for more cheap vodka